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	<title>Comments on: GirlsinOpenSource</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/</link>
	<description>The View From 25B</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mrs. MadChatter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. MadChatter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-247</guid>
		<description>I have to agree that these comments are extremely sexist and, yes, Paul, if a man had said them, the women would be screaming bloody murder about how men are so terrible to us...

There have been, are currently, and always will be differences between the way men and women think. However, there are also differences in personalities within the same sexes. Code is much like handwriting. One may be able to tell a gender difference with certain types, but, generally, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to tell male from female and vice versa. I am not a programmer or developer, I am a middle-aged woman with a degree in History, but I can figure out that saying something like this was as wrong as saying men are better than women at washing dishes or cooking.

Emma, honey, you can stroke your own ego without having to insult other people to do it. In my opinion, if you have to stroke your own ego, you're not very good at what you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree that these comments are extremely sexist and, yes, Paul, if a man had said them, the women would be screaming bloody murder about how men are so terrible to us&#8230;</p>
<p>There have been, are currently, and always will be differences between the way men and women think. However, there are also differences in personalities within the same sexes. Code is much like handwriting. One may be able to tell a gender difference with certain types, but, generally, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to tell male from female and vice versa. I am not a programmer or developer, I am a middle-aged woman with a degree in History, but I can figure out that saying something like this was as wrong as saying men are better than women at washing dishes or cooking.</p>
<p>Emma, honey, you can stroke your own ego without having to insult other people to do it. In my opinion, if you have to stroke your own ego, you&#8217;re not very good at what you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-245</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-245</guid>
		<description>In all due respect, that is the most sexist comments I have seen in a long time Emma. Good code is good code, and men as women can be as good (or bad) when it comes to code, engineering or architecture.
Elegance is a state of mind and being French, Irish, or American makes no difference.
I truly wish there was more women in engineering and working a lot internationally, I must say that other culture such as India would strongly disagree with you. Code (like good Irish Whisky :-) ) is asexual, appreciated by all, and is truly a great equalizer. But then again it is a male opinion which you may disagree with.
Congratulation also on your success (by any scale)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all due respect, that is the most sexist comments I have seen in a long time Emma. Good code is good code, and men as women can be as good (or bad) when it comes to code, engineering or architecture.<br />
Elegance is a state of mind and being French, Irish, or American makes no difference.<br />
I truly wish there was more women in engineering and working a lot internationally, I must say that other culture such as India would strongly disagree with you. Code (like good Irish Whisky <img src='http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) is asexual, appreciated by all, and is truly a great equalizer. But then again it is a male opinion which you may disagree with.<br />
Congratulation also on your success (by any scale)</p>
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		<title>By: carlos</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-244</guid>
		<description>@Kim Hansen- Here's another way to break down the programming languages barriers: write your own language that will be suitable for women.  It's easy to do, just get a really smart woman programmer and have her create a language to your specifications.  Let me know how that works out for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kim Hansen- Here&#8217;s another way to break down the programming languages barriers: write your own language that will be suitable for women.  It&#8217;s easy to do, just get a really smart woman programmer and have her create a language to your specifications.  Let me know how that works out for you.</p>
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		<title>By: alen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-243</link>
		<dc:creator>alen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-243</guid>
		<description>Kim, any research that states such a biased viewpoint as fact and as a basis for interpretation of numbers; doesn't deserve any time or money. A balanced view would have at least looked at equivalent factors in the male part of the equation. You didn't even do that.... 

"The female half of the human species has customarily been discriminated against in most human societies [44]. Cultures around the world have assigned their females labels from houseslave [3] to demoness [39]. "</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim, any research that states such a biased viewpoint as fact and as a basis for interpretation of numbers; doesn&#8217;t deserve any time or money. A balanced view would have at least looked at equivalent factors in the male part of the equation. You didn&#8217;t even do that&#8230;. </p>
<p>&#8220;The female half of the human species has customarily been discriminated against in most human societies [44]. Cultures around the world have assigned their females labels from houseslave [3] to demoness [39]. &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: alen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>alen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-242</guid>
		<description>Emma,

I simply don't believe that you hadn't thought about this topic before.
I believe you've felt some of the heat resulting from your opinions and are trying to cover up.
If you didn't have an opinion on gender related to work, you should have said so in the interview. Instead you gave very clear answers on how women are "better" and how you are trying to promote women into the workforce.
You are sexist; and should not be in a position of authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emma,</p>
<p>I simply don&#8217;t believe that you hadn&#8217;t thought about this topic before.<br />
I believe you&#8217;ve felt some of the heat resulting from your opinions and are trying to cover up.<br />
If you didn&#8217;t have an opinion on gender related to work, you should have said so in the interview. Instead you gave very clear answers on how women are &#8220;better&#8221; and how you are trying to promote women into the workforce.<br />
You are sexist; and should not be in a position of authority.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Hansen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-240</guid>
		<description>I actually did my preliminary masters work on just this subject.  Evidence in sociolinguistics strongly supports the conclusion that men might write more obfuscated code.  If you're in for a bit of a slog ;) , you can take a look at the paper I wrote on the subject here:

http://www.uleth.ca/gendersymposium/Kim.doc

The Future Work section includes a lot of work that I would like to have done towards getting some more definitive findings together, but didn't have the time/funding.  If anyone's interested in pursuing the research, I'd love to hear from you.  I think this is an extremely valuable pursuit.  Figuring out the actual differences between men' and women's code will go a long way towards breaking down the programming languages barriers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually did my preliminary masters work on just this subject.  Evidence in sociolinguistics strongly supports the conclusion that men might write more obfuscated code.  If you&#8217;re in for a bit of a slog <img src='http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> , you can take a look at the paper I wrote on the subject here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uleth.ca/gendersymposium/Kim.doc" rel="nofollow">http://www.uleth.ca/gendersymposium/Kim.doc</a></p>
<p>The Future Work section includes a lot of work that I would like to have done towards getting some more definitive findings together, but didn&#8217;t have the time/funding.  If anyone&#8217;s interested in pursuing the research, I&#8217;d love to hear from you.  I think this is an extremely valuable pursuit.  Figuring out the actual differences between men&#8217; and women&#8217;s code will go a long way towards breaking down the programming languages barriers.</p>
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		<title>By: mwarden</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>mwarden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-230</guid>
		<description>You've got to be kidding me.

Is the meta-press you're getting around this interview an intentional part of your "viral marketing" campaign, or are you really this dense?

The best part is where you say you can tell with 70%-80% accuracy whether the code you are looking at was written by a man or a woman at your company. But you also say that 80% of the coders are men.

Congratulations, you're doing WORSE THAN CHANCE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve got to be kidding me.</p>
<p>Is the meta-press you&#8217;re getting around this interview an intentional part of your &#8220;viral marketing&#8221; campaign, or are you really this dense?</p>
<p>The best part is where you say you can tell with 70%-80% accuracy whether the code you are looking at was written by a man or a woman at your company. But you also say that 80% of the coders are men.</p>
<p>Congratulations, you&#8217;re doing WORSE THAN CHANCE.</p>
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		<title>By: Do women write better computer code?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Do women write better computer code?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-229</guid>
		<description>[...] set off plenty of comments on that blog post and elsewhere, like this one at Slashdot and on McGratten&#8217;s own blog, where, by the way, she says her company&#8217;s code is &#8220;fairly androgynous&#8221; because [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] set off plenty of comments on that blog post and elsewhere, like this one at Slashdot and on McGratten&#8217;s own blog, where, by the way, she says her company&#8217;s code is &#8220;fairly androgynous&#8221; because [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Male</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Male</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-228</guid>
		<description>"women are more collaborative and, in a time of crisis, will pull a team together to get the problem resolved."

Yeah, women are much more likely to have strong leadership skills and will sacrifice work/life balance to do anything it takes to resolve things. Women will never let a bad situation perpetuate, they are highly confrontational to adverse situations.

What planet are you on? These are blatantly male characteristics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;women are more collaborative and, in a time of crisis, will pull a team together to get the problem resolved.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, women are much more likely to have strong leadership skills and will sacrifice work/life balance to do anything it takes to resolve things. Women will never let a bad situation perpetuate, they are highly confrontational to adverse situations.</p>
<p>What planet are you on? These are blatantly male characteristics.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/2008/05/15/girlsinopensource/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ingres.com/emmamcgrattan/?p=43#comment-225</guid>
		<description>If a man said this about women it would be considered highly offensive and sexist and he'd burn in hell for writing it.

But I'm still going to say it, from what I've seen (which I do NOT claim to apply to all women, unlike the author does with men) women make terrible coders, they're code can be "pretty" and "well-documented", but most of the code I've seen was terribly long and inefficient, didn't handle errors correctly and was eventually rewritten by men into short, efficient functions that handle errors perfectly.

And I'd much rather have good code than crap code with lots of explanation.

Also in your interview you say that the women mainly handle localisation and stuff, the men do most of the actual coding, of course there'll be more documentation done by the woman, it'd take an idiot (or someone who doesn't understand software development, like the audience of your horribly biased interview) to actually think that these figures hold up when comparing people doing completely different things.

I think you should never have said women and men, you should have said that programmers document less than those responsible for localisation, but that of course wouldn't get your biased point across</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a man said this about women it would be considered highly offensive and sexist and he&#8217;d burn in hell for writing it.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m still going to say it, from what I&#8217;ve seen (which I do NOT claim to apply to all women, unlike the author does with men) women make terrible coders, they&#8217;re code can be &#8220;pretty&#8221; and &#8220;well-documented&#8221;, but most of the code I&#8217;ve seen was terribly long and inefficient, didn&#8217;t handle errors correctly and was eventually rewritten by men into short, efficient functions that handle errors perfectly.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;d much rather have good code than crap code with lots of explanation.</p>
<p>Also in your interview you say that the women mainly handle localisation and stuff, the men do most of the actual coding, of course there&#8217;ll be more documentation done by the woman, it&#8217;d take an idiot (or someone who doesn&#8217;t understand software development, like the audience of your horribly biased interview) to actually think that these figures hold up when comparing people doing completely different things.</p>
<p>I think you should never have said women and men, you should have said that programmers document less than those responsible for localisation, but that of course wouldn&#8217;t get your biased point across</p>
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